- I was thinking on the way home from work tonight, so here it is. It probably won't be as coherent as it should be, but it's after 4am.
The church has lost its focus. We preach against things the Bible is silent on, and we ignore the fact that people blatantly avoid coming to church are still called "brothers." We condemn things we have no business condemning, and we don't mind that no one thinks the Bible is infallible.
We've lost our focus. Somewhere along the way, we decided as Baptists to lop of the dandelion's head rather than pluck it up by the root. Women wearing pants!!!??? That is really the cause of the church's current state of apathy and weakness? Playing cards? Cigarettes? Really???
The next time someone says cigarettes are sin, ask them about cheeseburgers. They will inevitably say the word "excess" if they have been taught anything. Then ask them where in the Bible I am given authority to judge excess for any other person. Where am I given reign to say "No!!! You've had one too many cheeseburgers already, Brother Munson. No more for you!" What is wrong with the church today, that we think that has anything to do with Christianity?
People don't know who God is. They don't know what is in His Word. They don't know what living separate really means, and for decades now, they've been hearing that Christianity is a list of rules. Don't drink. Don't smoke. And if you're a girl, don't wear pants. Don't play cards.
WHAT?
People don't respect the church anymore. They don't. They don't care what the church says. Do you think maybe that started when preachers stopped talking about sinners in the hands of a Mighty God and started talking about cigarettes?? I have a feeling it was.
Some will argue that the two messages are not exclusive. Okay, but one is Biblical, and the other isn't. One can be verified by verses and the other is cautioned flagged with "we think, because it's bad for you." Like cheeseburgers. And breathing without a mask. Honestly, we should all be mimicking Michael Jackson's phobia if we want to avoid "what's bad for us." What's wrong with us!? Cards, pants and cigarettes? Really.
We love rules, as Baptists. We like the "don't" list, because then we can say "hey, I'm doing pretty good." It's a sense of security, of accomplishment, of pride. But it's not Biblical!
House rules are different. You want to have a rule that says "no cards in my house" or "No cigarettes," then more power to you. Cigarettes are idiotic (costly, unattractive, costly), so I will never have them in my house. (But if someone asks you why you don't smoke, and you come back with "because I'm a Christian," you're not going to be able to back that up. You're not. Unless you're a vegetarian who uses gloves to open doors.) The problem comes when your kid asks "why don't we play cards?" and you say "Because the Bible says so" instead of "because I don't like them and don't want them in my house."
It's good to appear as lunatics to the world. We're supposed to be weird. The problem comes when we're weird for reasons that aren't Scriptural, and then we say they are. It's not in the Bible that women can't wear pants. Or tennis shoes. Oddly, Baptists don't usually have problems with the latter.
Anyway, that's my rant.
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15 comments:
Nice RANT!
Oddly enough I met those pants-hating Baptists the other day. They named women wearing pants as a major controversy in the church and told me they were taking the high road by having all their women wear skirts or dresses. Check out my blog for more details.
Or less details.
5v5
PS
I see that Joe has labled Dave "lover boy" on his blog page. I can only assume that Dave does not know yet.
good post. I think the key about the cheesburger/cigarette topic is to rember you are to be a good steward of what God has given you, which includes taking care of your body. Cigarttes can be preached against becasue they are addictive and people depend on them to relax when they are stressed out. Nicotine is a drug and you can preach aganist relying on something other than the Holy Spirit. Dave does know about the "lover boy" label.
Joe said "taking care of your body." So I assume next time I see you, you'll be wearing white gloves and a little white mask, or at least caring a hanky to breathe through. ;P
As for the stress removal, we do all sorts of things to relieve stress. Some of us write. Some of us fly. Some of us get back rubs. Some of us lay in the sun. Once preachers start condemning those things, I'll at least be satisfied with consistency.
you did not address the drug issue, so do you think cocaine is ok? Its not about the stress its about the drug aspect and whats the extreme about wearing a mask and gloves? (Extremes lead to cults.:) people who smoke are always smoking, there body is addicted to the nicotine. You should not be dependent on anyhting you don't need to live. Dependant=addicted. If your joking tell me cause I cant tell. I really cant beleive your arguing this.
I really am. You can not argue "unhealthy" because you don't wear gloves to open doors.
As for drugs, this is going to get complicated. First of all, there are plenty of medicines that alter your mind. We have no problems taknig them fr medicinal purposes. Therefore, there is no 100% rule (we believe) against taking things that alter your state of mind.
Secondly, smoking is not a mind altering drug. It calms, not unlike the euphoria people experience when flying, sailing, or driving really fast.
Cocaine and nicotine are nothnig alike. They aren't, and using it in the same argument allows me to focus on the fact that they aren't, ad I can avoid even talkngi about cigarettes, and focus on cocaine. But let's get back on cigarettes.
Nicotine is addictive, yes. The thing is, as soon as you bring addicitive" into the argument, you are fundamentally conceding that *1* cigarette is NOT morally wrong. If 1 cigarette was wrong, addiction would mean nothing. But no one can scripturally argue that 1 cigarette is wrong. They can't. They HAVE to argue excess, and when arguing excess, I 100% agree with you. Excessive smoking is bad. Like excessive drinking. Excessive eating.
Now name one reason YOU have any right to tell ME (not that you are, I was just using us as examples) or anyone else what is excess for me. Because excess is different for different people. Short of parents with children, I don't see where Baptists get off telling people what excess is.
There were a ton of spelling mistakes in that post; mostly letter omissions.
I wanted to add that we can argue unhealthy if you want. Just stop eating candy, meat, ice cream, grease, or anything other than greens first. Unless you think it's part of your liberty.
sorry i got here so late...brilliant. so true mike.
I did see Joe's comment. I had a long post ready to post and something happened to my internet window and I just didn't want to retype it.
I'm off to check your blog about pants. ;)
Again, great stuff Mike. Beautifully argued.
I see your thing about to much of food or sweets. Are you just trying to stop rule preaching or what. i do believe you have to take care of your body. Life and breath are a grace from God and if you are not responsible with your body I beleive you are sinning. As to the question of excess, Yes I can't tell you what excess is from the pulpit.
def: the fact of exceeding something else in amount or degree: His strength is in excess of yours.
2. the amount or degree by which one thing exceeds another: The bill showed an excess of several hundred dollars over the estimate.
3. an extreme or excessive amount or degree; superabundance: to have an excess of energy.
4. a going beyond what is regarded as customary or proper: to talk to excess.
5. immoderate indulgence; intemperance in eating, drinking, etc.
–adjective 6. more than or above what is necessary, usual, or specified; extra: a charge for excess baggage; excess profits.
There is no scriptural definition that I know of? I will continue to stick to my healthy living stand. (cheesburgers are unhealthy foodcigarettes are not so I think that is not a good comparison.) I am curious who is preaching against smoking, cards and pants? I have not heared smoking preached agaist for I dont't know how long.
THe whole opening doors with gloves is an extreme and I hoppe you were trying to make a point and not saying if i am going to try to take care of my body I need to go around wearing a mask and gloves. That would hinder the cause of Christ.
There is a verse which says avoid the appearence of evil. does not say it is evil but if it even looks like it might be evil we are to avoid it. I think it is issues like this that this verse is applicable.
I can compare cheeseburgers with cigarettes because both are unhealthy, and that is the point upon which I was making comparison. Unhealthy is unhealthy, and if that is the reason you can't smoke, then the point stands that you shouldn't be eating cheeseburgers either (unless it's Christian liberty to eat cheeseburgers). The comparison is not food to something else, it's unhealthy substance to unhealthy substance.
I don't believe you need to wear gloves, but anyone arguing what you seemed to be arguing HAS to logically be in favor of wearing gloves. Because it is the *healthiest* thing for you. My whole point is, we DON'T wear gloves, but no one goes around saying "You're sinning, because not wearing gloves is unhealthy." And it is unhealthy, compared to wearing them.
As for appearance of evil, who says cigarettes appear evil? Again, should we not eat cheeseburgers because it might look like gluttony? I'm sure there are some situations for that kind of mindset, but in ordinary everyday life, we eat what we want without fear of looking like gluttons. Cigarettes aren't evil. Christians used to smoke all the time before the 1940s. The only reason we might say they appear evil is that we have been "preaching for doctrine the comandment of men." "Cigarettes are bad!" Well, no, they aren't. That being said, I would not smoke in front of people from church, because they would be offended, just like I wouldn't eat meat in front of a christian who would be offended by that. I have no problem eating meat in my own home, however.
You're telling me that growing up in a Baptist church, hearing missionaries and evagenlists at every event, you never heard cards, cigarettes, and pants preached against? I went to a lot less (events, like Harvest Fest, and Youth Rallies) than you did, and I heard it a lot. I heard it in youth group (not the pants so much), too. That is what I am mostly addressing. I don't hear it in my current church from the pulpit, and I doubt you do either. But, when I brought it up, you said "I can't believe you are arguing this," meaning you know that, traditionally, this (my position) is NOT the position of Baptists.
One cheesburger is not gluttony. yes it probably is not good for you either. A cheesburger has grease as probably the only unhealthy thing in it; the rest has some nutritinal value. Cigarettes have nothing good about them accept to calm the person down. I would argue that cheesburgers would be in the liberty category. Cigarettes have no good in them in fact they are know to cause cancer and various other problems. It is an established fact that they are completely counterproductive to the human body. (Too many cheesburgers are as well.) There are very few people who smoke only a little. Considering the habits in the '40's they did not know the what we know concerning the dangers of smoking; we can not take habits from the past and use them for support, past does not equal right. So basically your arguing it is in the christians liberty to smoke a cigarette every now and then.
The gloves issue is absurd. You are suppose to be responsible with what God has given you not fringe. Those kind of people end up in mental hospitals. The Christian should be careful to treat the blessing of life with responsability. That means anything we know to be harmful we do not partake of, cigarettes, fast food ( I have been giving serious thought to this topic before you brought it up so I am not just thinking this up now). Then the question has to be asked, what is harmful and how much of something is harmful? Being that we know cigarettes to be harmful and addictive I say it has at least the appearnce of evil and should be avoided by the beleiver. No, I can not say the bible condems it outright.
I do not remeber hearing cards preached against. Smoking now and then but I may have been distracted.:)
Of course the glove issue is absurd! That's the point. It is ABSURD for anyone to tell anyone else that they need to wear gloves because gloves protect you from germs and are THEREFORE healthier.
One cheeseburger is unhealthy when you could be eating spinach. That's my point. Greens and water, like Daniel and the other three.
But, all in all, I think we agree. You can't condemn cigarettes outright, and that's what I was saying in the first place.
"One cheeseburger is not gluttony." And one cigarette won't give you cancer. Badda-bing. So "it's sin because they are unhealthy and we need to be stewards, etc" doesn't work. That's like my whole point, right there.
I say that mayonaise is harmful, and therefore having it in your house at least appears evil. I say having candy of any kind and oatmeal cookies are harmful, and therefore appear evil.
No, wait, I don't. But I could.
so at what point does eating "unhealthy become sin"? If you have great metabolism you can eat anything and not be unhealthy by medical standards,generally speaking now, but is it being responsible? What you should preach is honoring the life God has given you and teaching the principle that life is a grace from God. I think people will give up smoking before burgers. just a guess. I am very close to not eating fast food, unless my mule is in the ditch.
That's fine, if you want to make that decision. Like I already said, excess is different for different people, and I'm not about to tell you what excess is for you.
Nothing I've said contradicts what you think "I should be preaching." I think you're right, that should be taught. I also think (and this is what my main post was about) that Christians need to stop "teaching for doctrine the commandments of men." I chose cards, pants, and cigarettes. I could have thrown in other things. I just chose those three, because that is what I remember hearing a lot.
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